Holy Spirit 4: Why Didn't Anyone Teach Us This?

Many of us grew up hearing about God the Father and God the Son. But the third part of the Trinity, that Jesus sent to live *inside* of believers, can somehow feel like background atmosphere. Like heaven air, or the comforting presence of God when you need it. But what the Bible tells us about the Holy Spirit is so much bigger than that.

In this final episode of our Holy Spirit series, we do something kind of unusual: admit that we didn't really understand the Holy Spirit until adulthood. Not as a doctrinal gap, but as a lived one. Despite years in Baptist, Methodist, non-denominational, and sometimes Catholic settings, neither of us had been taught what it actually means that the Spirit takes up residence in a believer at salvation — actively guiding, redirecting, and shaping choices from the inside out.

This episode explores why that gap exists. Part of it is the legacy of Enlightenment-era Protestantism, which leaned hard into reason and systematized theology, often at the cost of the Spirit's more personal, harder-to-package work. Part of it is a preacher's practical dilemma: "just follow the Spirit" is genuinely difficult to teach across a diverse congregation. And part of it is simply that law-based frameworks are easier to hand someone than a relationship. Drawing on Galatians 5, we talk about what it actually means to walk by the Spirit — not a one-time decision that brings us a lifetime of peace, but a moment-by-moment orientation. A guide to tune into, and a presence to stay close to.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Welcome back. And today we're wrapping up our series on the Holy Spirit. Today we're talking about culturally how the Holy Spirit is defined, how it's talked about, and maybe also why it's not as talked about. So Rachel, let me hear from y'all. Yeah, so let's actually start with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

What was your learning experience? Like what were you taught? When were you taught about the Holy Spirit, if you can remember?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I know. I was baptized at nine, and so I had been going to church for a while, but I don't recall knowing the Holy Spirit. I mean, I must have been taught it. You know, I went to a Baptist church. Right. So the Trinity was part of how God was defined. Yeah. My memory isn't so great with the past. So it's an interesting concept though, right? Because even though I don't remember a lot of the past, obviously I've built on foundations that I've learned. And I don't ever really recall understanding fully the Holy Spirit as something that lives directly inside of you rather than an abstract idea of just the Holy Spirit is in the air and it helps guide people. Even going to various churches as a child until now, I never really fully understood the Holy Spirit's role until we started Bible study. Right. Really saying, what does this really say? Then I'm like, oh, there's a lot of scripture pieces that say the Holy Spirit comes into you. Yeah. And it guides you once you're a believer and you accept Jesus. And so what about you? Because for me it that didn't cement until just a few years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah, same, which is interesting. I think that's part of why we're talking about that today. So I wasn't going to church as a young kid, but I would go on occasion, like when we were visiting family. Yeah. And then I didn't start actually going to a church on a regular basis until I was probably 11 or 12, I think. Okay. But I certainly remember learning about and hearing about the Trinity, the Holy Trinity.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

And obviously we were learning about Jesus and God and the Bible. But I also had no understanding of the Holy Spirit, what it was. I didn't even realize it was on earth with us. It was never defined for me. So I would think of a Trinity as like a triangle. Yeah. And they say Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Father, that's like a clear role. Son is a very clear role. And they're very clearly connected to each other.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

I don't know. It's a spirit. It's like just floating out there. It's like the air in heaven, kind of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I always thought it just like this energetic force that just is kind of out there helping people for the better.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I didn't even learn about it as guiding or helping.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Which the Bible's pretty clear about. But I think I thought more it like connected Jesus and God, which was also still very confusing and it doesn't make sense. Yeah, it was like the Trinity reform. Confusing aspect, but we've heard it explained more recently in ways that does feel like it makes more sense. And so I think that's part of the question today is why are we not taught that sooner?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Why are we not taught more about the Holy Spirit when we're taught about Jesus? Especially if it's sort of three, it's three parts, but it's one. It's like three and one. But why aren't we learning about all of them the same way?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

It's very heavily on two of the three.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

So the Holy Spirit's just sitting there.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

And the third is just like bonus. Dude. Yeah. But he the Holy Spirit gets two names, right? So it's like special. Because one is father, one is son, the other is Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Like that's pretty cool. So then for you, now that we feel like we have an understanding as much as a mere mortal can of the Holy Trinity, a Holy Spirit situation. Why is it that you do think that it's not something as explicitly talked about culturally as like, oh no, it's literally inside of your body. Right. And you're literally supposed to listen to it. You will guide your feet. Right. The light.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yeah. So I don't exactly know. I have been mad about this. Like, why didn't I know these things until now? But I don't want to be mad. I don't want to be mad today. I don't want to be mad anymore. So I've looked into it a little bit and I do think that it's not as maybe like conspiratorial as I might have thought it was. Like I don't think it's necessarily intentional. Like we're not withholding valuable knowledge from people. I think it's just more of the way culture has evolved and what we now associate with words like spirit and spirituality.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah. And I think too, just for the listener's perspective, Rachel and I have been and seen quite a few preachers over the years. Non-denominational, Baptist, Methodist kind of leaning. And some Catholic. And so yeah, like our understanding isn't of every different denomination. We have a friend who says her church actually does talk about it quite a bit. So this isn't us just saying, like, there's not a church out there that talks about it. But more of like from our general experience of having seen a lot of preachers and discussions, it just hasn't for us been a main bullet point in the discussion.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Well, and first of all, I feel like it should be, right? If it's the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and they're three in one, right? It should be three main bullets, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

And I feel like if it had been in those earlier conversations, I feel like things would have happened a little bit differently for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah. Let's open up with some more scripture like we did last time on the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Okay, let's read Galatians five, sixteen through eighteen. And this is the ESV version. But I say, walk by the spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Ooh, so what how like how do you how do you take that reading it the first time? You are not above the law, Rachel. I want to know what that means. Like No, me too.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Can we look it up? It says you are not under the law.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Oh, you're not under the law.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

But if you're not over the la Yeah, so it's Galatians 5, 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Any law that humans create, the Holy Spirit is just on a different level. Is that what that means? I've never heard the phrase not under the law, right? Right. That makes it sound like I don't have to obey the law. But yeah, it's very intentional. So I'm guessing we might be off on that. Okay, we looked it up. That's what we do here. We ask a lot of questions that we don't expect, and then we're just real timing this. Yep. So not under the law. Of course, it doesn't mean that the law is bad, but what it's primarily saying, and this is Paul, that the law is no longer the primary way people relate to God. Because in the Old Testament, that is how we related to God. Sacrifices, circumcisions. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

If you're not following the law properly, then you're separated from God, but with the Holy Spirit, we're still supposed to follow the law. Right. But it's not what's opening or closing the gate to getting to God.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

A good question is am I trying to earn God's approval through performance? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Jesus never actually says that we don't need to follow the laws. Right. He was just trying to be like calm down about it, but loving others first. Right, which in a way is it is. There's laws that they want us to follow. Jesus very clearly shows this like hierarchy. And loving God and your neighbor is at the top of that hierarchy. That has always been the case. But now we don't need to be right with that law at any moment to be able to connect to God.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

I forget which Bible verse we can look it up, but it says circumcise or not. Like that's literally not the point. Right. In the New Testament. If you are only doing deeds for the sake of doing deeds rather than actually living a spirit-led life, that's just simply not the point. But it's not to say like go out and murder your neighbor because the law doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Like, no, obviously. Also, I like that it says you are not under the law. It does not say you are above the law. Exactly. You're just not under it. So don't be thinking about loitering people. Right. Okay. Yeah. We're not saying no law. Right. Exactly. That was a little tangent. So above that in Galatians, where it's talking about the spirit in the flesh. We've learned about that. But that was another thing. I was like, why have I only learned about this as an adult? And then also you hear things relating to the flesh weaponized a lot, I think. Yeah. So the spirit versus the flesh, I almost automatically feel like shame of like, oh, but I am flesh, which means I'm bad. And that's also not what that's saying. It's like it's creating this duality and it's saying we have the spirit. And so we have the choice to follow you can follow the flesh or you can follow the spirit. And the fact that they are always in conflict to one another, that's kind of powerful.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah. Kind of stinks because that means we are supposed to always be following the spirit. Right. It's not one choice. You know, you turn 10 and you're like, I'm gonna do spirit, and then you're never tempted.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

No, it's like every moment, every single thing that we do.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

It's like, which one are you following?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah. And it's not like, oh, they ate a Kit Kat, that's the flesh. It's just not even that simple. It's so much more of a complex. I think that usually is the flesh. Kit Kat's can what if you okay?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

That's another see, because I feel like that's shame and guilt. You're right. If you're out like surviving in the wilderness and had access to a Kit Kat, right, that could be life-giving.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

I think it's the purpose behind, or if you're even just like, oh yeah, I just have this as like a tasty afternoon snack versus this is fulfilling my life in ways that maybe the Holy Spirit should be.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah, that's like a quagmire. It is. And I think everybody is having thank you. I love that one. Is that in the Bible? Ooh, I don't know. Find out. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so quagmire, in case anyone was wondering, is defined as a boggy trap of sin or moral sinking. Whoa. So that's pretty intense. And we can read Psalm 69, save me, O God, for the waters have come up to my neck. Oh. I sink in deep mire where there is no foothold. I have come into deep waters and the flood sweeps over me. Oh, wow. I think I was thinking quagmire more as like a swamp that you have to navigate. Yeah. It didn't mean that we're like all sinking down. Yes. It's like the new sand that we learned about was so dangerous in like fourth grade. Right. Sinking into a pit that you can't get out of. Okay, so maybe not exactly that, but I think more what I was saying is maybe pickle is a gentler word. It's a pickle. It's a pickle. I think every person has to like navigate for themselves. Yeah. Probably should not have said that kit cats are of the flesh because I think we can see that they might not always be.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

That's when we get ourselves into trouble, right? Is when we generalize. And I think that's why it's so confusing. And perhaps a quagmire of sorts is because it's not easily defined. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

The good news is the Holy Spirit is not just like a fluffy cloud living in us. It is our guide, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

So that's good.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Can it be like both the fluffy cloud and guiding us? Well, it's still a fluffy cloud. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It's just a fluffy cloud with purpose, I think. Ah. So given that we know the Holy Spirit guides us literally through nudges and through maybe even dreams.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Why then, as practicing Christians, to me, that sounds like, oh, that'd be in every single sermon. Right. And it's not, and that's fine, right? This is not like a judgmental us pointing fingers. So in our culture, why has it shifted?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

I think there was some shifting around the time of the age of enlightenment. Tell me. So that's when we started to shift a little bit from like philosophy and more into reasoning and really getting into logic.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah. So I think it's a theological focus in a lot of ways now is a preference for intellectual teaching over experiential spiritual gifts, very personalized experience because then you can't preach to everyone. Right. And it is so specific and subjective to each person that to have a general conversation about it for some people might not land. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Even when we started the series, I wanted to define what's the body, what's the mind, what's the spirit. And it was really hard for me to just come to terms with the idea that we're an integrated being. Like I can't pick it apart that cleanly.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Our brains want to.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah. Again, like we said, the appendix, that's where the Holy Spirit lives. And it's like, no, it's all through us, and the kidneys need the brain, and our spirit thrives on all of it. Right. It's not distinguishable.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

I think that age of enlightenment led to a lot of groundbreaking theology that then gave us a lot of that intellectual and reasoning that we could just grasp onto. Yeah. And then sort of turn those into curriculums.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah. And I think it's also very law-based. There's a lot of denominations that are very law-based. This is the way that this goes. Do these things. Again, that's totally fine. But that doesn't lend itself as much to an individual unique experience, right? It's like, oh no, you can figure that out on your own.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

That's your own spiritual time to figure out how the Holy Spirit's leading you. But right now I'm going to tell you, no, you definitely need to rest on the Sabbath. I don't know if that's part of it. Yeah. A rule-based leaning. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

I think it likely is. I mean, since the beginning of humanity in the Bible has kind of landed there where we need the laws, otherwise we're just horrible creatures. But when we're given the laws, then we sometimes take them so far that then we're missing the point, which is humanity and connection. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's easier, I think, to preach law than it is to preach spiritual growth.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And I think part of it too is of course we're talking about God leading you a lot in sermons, right? Oh, God will do this, God's doing this for his people. And I think it's because of the Holy Trinity, the word God actually does encompass the Holy Spirit as like, oh yeah, God means Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit. Right. When I say God's leading you, absolutely, I mean the Holy Spirit. But over time, maybe people just didn't understand that that's what that also encompassed.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Or it was just taken for granted that we did understand it. Yeah. Because the Holy Spirit guides people in so many different ways and it looks very differently. That might be a hard thing to just preach on simply just by the nature of it.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah, it's also a hard thing to live by as well. In Galatians, the spirit is in conflict with the flesh.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I do not feel equipped right now to like walk out of here and be prepared to reject all fleshly decisions going forward. So it's like the more you examine some of those things, not that we shouldn't examine them, but it can get hard. Okay, because now I need to do something with that. I mean, that could be part of it too. If you can't give me guidelines or boundaries around the Holy Spirit, it can sound scary to tell me to go follow that.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Especially when like we do have fleshly impulses. Even and like we talked about this before. Like I have a hard time telling what's from the Holy Spirit sometimes versus like what's from my ADHD like impulsivity. Right. I have these amazing random thoughts and ideas and directions. And then I'm like, wait a minute, is that just from like a dopamine-deprived, sleep-deprived Amanda? Right. Yeah, that's why you don't act on these things right away. You seek scripture and prayer and community to kind of rectify that. But I imagine if you're teaching and preaching, that's a hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

You don't want to necessarily tell a whole bunch of diverse people who know very different levels of the Bible to go follow your Holy Spirits because who knows what they understand about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

And I mean I've read that the focus has been more on the role of the gifts of the spirit. Yeah. How does the fruit of the spirit play into the Holy Spirit's role in our body?

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I think the fruit of the spirit is the outcome of us following, like making spirit-led decisions.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So it's like Pac-Man. If I win the level and I follow the good path, I get a berry. Is that how Pac-Man? God, it's been a while. I win the level.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

So you get a fruit. No, it's not you get a fruit. It would be more like you poop out a fruit. Oh, yeah. Drop little fruits.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Oh, that's true, because you're not getting it, you're giving it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah. And you even told me the other day that it's not fruits of the spirit. Yeah. It's fruit of the spirit. So there are seven or ten fruits that we define. Yeah. What the fruit of the spirit is. It's not multiple fruits. It's fruit. It's a package. I think it's just that that's what we look like when we are making spirit-led decisions.

unknown 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And I think churches might emphasize fruit of the Holy Spirit just because that is really important and it should be talked about, right? Like patience, love. It's so much a core central theme of the Bible. I could see why. Oh, yeah, of course we're talking about fruit of the spirit. That makes a lot of sense. These things are really applicable. And so maybe the other part of the Holy Spirit of being led is just kind of minimized in that process. Right. When I learned a couple of years ago that we don't get to heaven on good works, but our relationship with Jesus and the relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit and God produces good works, like blew my mind.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah, it scared me, honestly. Because I was like, wait, what? Well, it's a paradigm shift, right? Like I think I'm a pretty good person, but do I have a relationship with Jesus?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Right. It's a lot easier to pick up a friend from the airport as a good deed than it is to maybe try and conceptualize a relationship with someone you can't see. Yes. But it's like that. So it is like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

So that's why we gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

We need to be learning about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is really at the core of how do we get to heaven? What does this all look like? Being led by the Holy Spirit and having this relationship with Jesus, not just the Holy Spirit. I mean, but they're all the same thing. So well, whatever. Yeah. Is the way to eternal life. And therefore, with this relationship, we have good fruit.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

I think a lot of stuff in the 60s and 70s, where we started to use the word spirit and spirituality in other movements. Sure. And you started to associate the word spirituality less with Christianity. Absolutely. And more with like New Age or even some Eastern religions like Buddhism. Yeah. For me, it's clear that spirituality is a big part of Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah. So I think it's helpful to look at where the word spirit even came from. And this kind of ties back to our very first episode on the Holy Spirit, where the ancient Hebrew word is translated as Rach. Am I saying that correctly? Ruach. Ruach. I just think of the Bible project and like how he says it so magical. So good at saying that or the worst. Okay. So in the Old Testament, Ruach means breath, wind, life force. And this obviously could be used in a lot of different ways because it means breath.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah. So I was thinking of the Holy Spirit as a fluffy cloud. Oh, and even before I was thinking of it as like heaven air. Yeah, yeah. It does make it feel a little less like a packet inside of me, though. If God breathed life into me and now that's my spirit, and then giving me the Holy Spirit, it does feel a little more like airish.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah. Right. It's like filling up every little corner of our body that's not taken up by organs or even through them.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Then you have other religions and spiritual movements that get into examining that like life force. Like what is the life force? And that's what spirit means. And so it makes sense to use the word spiritual in those contexts. Right. Can't be the only one, but the context that I was growing up with, the word spirituality did not mesh with the understanding of Christianity. It just didn't.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

And it's funny to look back historically at the way that spirit's been interpreted in different cultures is actually all kind of coming back to a life force, essentially a holy spirit.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

This says historically spirit didn't originally mean ghost-like being, but invisible force that makes something alive. But now I'm like, Holy Ghost, we have to look at that. Are they the same? What's going down? Tell us. Comes down to these translations. Holy Ghost comes from an older English translation, and it doesn't refer to something different. It's the same concept, just a shift in the language over time. So in the original biblical language, the Hebrew word was Holy Spirit, Ruach Kodesh. But over time, with the King James Version, the 1611 version, they used the word ghost because at the time ghost meant spirit. Okay. So I think over time, yeah, we actually interpreted that word and took it a different way rather than the Bible. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

I like referring to it as the Holy Spirit more because when I say ghost, I think of like a being. Yeah, like a supernatural apple. The Holy Spirit is a being, but right. Like I think of the Christmas story where you have like the ghost of exactly Christmas pattern. Then those guys are creepy. Right. He has like chains. Yeah, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And you shouldn't be able to like see it. Well, I guess Peter did, right? He had divisions of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. No, I guess it wasn't the Holy Spirit. Well, the angel of the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Is the angel of the Lord the Holy Spirit?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Like in Peter's case, the angel of the Lord, if I'm remembering this correctly, comes to the prison, unshackles him, and like leads him out. Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

And I've learned the angel of the Lord, but it's also not God.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

But it's also different than other angels.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Right. So is it the Holy Spirit? Good question. So the internets say it's not the Holy Spirit. In the Bible, they're presented as distinct figures.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Though both are ways God's presence interacts with people. The phrase angel of the Lord comes from the Hebrew Malak Yahweh, which literally means messenger of the Lord. In Exodus 3, in the burning bush, the angel of the Lord appears, but then the text says that God spoke from the bush. Right. I remember this being kind of like an interesting verbiage. So the angel is distinct from God, yet also fully representing God. So it's like sort of a vessel for God, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And angels are messengers.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

But it's not just an angel that has a message from God. Right. It's God coming through an angel.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Totally. Well, and I've recently read too that some people think that the angel of the Lord is Jesus before he came. Okay. So I think it's not really clear what the angel of the Lord is, but it sounds like verbiage-wise, it's distinct from the Holy Spirit. I think we can say that, at least with some certainty. Yeah. Just because the Holy Spirit indwells in people and the angel of the Lord has always appeared visibly. Right. You know, different missions. Different things. Different things. Yeah, that's a really good question, Rachel. I feel like we're a little all over the place today. Um it brings up a lot of questions. Culturally. Yeah. How culturally we've understood these words to mean.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

So here's another scripture that I think is actually pretty cool. Also kind of scary.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Oh, I love good scary Bible verse.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

I feel like when a Bible verse scares you, that's your sign to dig deeper into it. The anticipation is killing me. Okay, so in Ephesians 4, there's a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit and how to be, kind of. But Ephesians 4 30, I'm reading ESV. It says, and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. So we talked about this two times ago that at the moment of salvation we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. So at that point we are redeemed and we don't have to be clean to go to heaven. Yeah. Because we have been sealed and protected. But in the same sentence, it's saying, do not grieve the Holy Spirit. So I wanted to understand what that meant because when I think of grieving something, I think I grieve this horrible thing that has happened.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Right. Like you're grieving something that's gone or changed that you can never get back. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I am experiencing grief.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

As a result of. That's not what it's saying here. It's actually saying more, do not cause grief to the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Oh, like don't make him sad. Yes. Read the verse again, how it's laid out.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

It's an adjective. Grieve. Yeah. Like do not do a grieving. Do not do grief to the Holy Spirit. Oh. So how do you grieve the Holy Spirit? Well, a lot of Ephesians four before that tells you what to do. Ephesians four twenty-five. Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. Be angry and do not sin, do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up as it fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And then it says, And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God. It does kind of have a rule book of following Jesus' tenement of basically love thy neighbor. Yeah. Is if you are loving thy neighbor, you are probably not grieving your Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

And when you do things like lash out in anger or steal something, you are actively making the Holy Spirit sad. Yeah. Oh. Which is kind of powerful. You're not making the Holy Spirit angry, and the Holy Spirit has already sealed you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

So we don't want to make him sad. Yeah. And also not make every little sin like now I feel really guilt ridden, but rather when we do acknowledging it and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you from there. Yeah. Rather than feeling like guilty and sad.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

I think that's where parenting has helped me a lot with that. Because if like if Lily says something to me that hurts me, and she does it because she's angry, she'll tell me later, she'll like put her hand on me or something and be like, You're the best. I'm sorry. Yeah. I have no malice at the fact that a few minutes ago she said something mean to me. Coming back and being like, I love you, you're the best thing ever. Yeah. Is worth her saying something mean to me when she's angry.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Right, because it's not the point of never sinning, and now you've won. It's right acknowledging it, growing from it, and continuing the relationship. Because our relationship with God is just that. It's a relationship, just like it is with anyone else. Yep. It's like, oh, I'm sorry, I messed up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

And we like that. I think we could kind of wrap up with Romans 8.14, which is a very nice verse. It is not scary. Not scary. We will end happy. So Romans 8.14 simply says, For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

So even having the gift of being able to be led by the Holy Spirit is such an amazing thing. Yeah. That we have this in us.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

It's a beautiful thing. Romans 8 16 says the Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. And if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. That is a good ending. The least scariest of verses. So the Holy Spirit is not a scary thing. Spirituality is not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

It's part of God and it's part of how we're supposed to engage with God. And I think flesh versus spirit is something that we're all kind of on individual journeys with. And we should not be sort of ignoring that journey. And we should also not be like walking it in shame.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Absolutely. So if we misstep, if we feel like we're grieving the Holy Spirit, it's a relationship. Yeah. So just beautiful. Turn it to him and know that he's going to be exactly thank you, child. Exactly. For like coming back to me. We have a beautiful opportunity to make it right and then continue on. Yeah. Without feeling the weight of that on maybe even stronger. Maybe even stronger. Absolutely. So next week, did you want to talk about plants in the Bible? Oh, yes. I feel like I want to talk about some ferns. Well, I don't know. Ferns is like an old plant. Probably, yeah. Tune in next week if you want to know. If ferns are in the Bible, we do not know that.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Yeah, we will find out what the oldest plant in the Bible is.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

If we can.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

If we can.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

There's actually some really good, good tree stuff in the Bible. And in fact, just I know we're not at next week yet. But one of my favorite, it's not my favorite thing, but like a little gem in Genesis that I love is when it's describing the trees in the garden. Yeah. It specifically says some trees bear fruit that is good to eat. And some trees are pleasing to the eye. Totally. They're just good to look at. Like that today. Really? Yeah. There's a lot about trees.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

I mean, it's in Genesis. All right. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. How do we find? Thanks for coming, everybody. Until next time.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Until next time.